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| James C |
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 | Hi Guys, Just wanted some feedback from fellow Neo owners/breeders on the importance of hipscoring potential breeding stock. In the next year or so, my wife and I, potentially will be breeding our dogs. Whilst wanting to carry out the relevant health tests and try to help to move the breed forward, we are terrified of putting our dogs under general anaesthetic for the x-rays (have heard several horror stories of dogs not coming round again - needless to say, this would be absolutely devastating for us!) I know several breeders of the cane corso here in the UK and they recommend sedatives rather than GA, but when I spoke to my vet, he was less enthusiastic. He mentioned that sedatives are very difficult to reverse as opposed to GA. The sample size under the BVA hip scoring scheme for the mastino, is quite frankly pitiful in the UK. (There were something like 32 representatives, as opposed to almost twice that for a much rarer breed, the Boerboel/South African mastif). It would be nice for more breeders to carry out health tests as I feel some less reputable Neo BYB's are hiding behind the fact that the breed has "loose hips" and can't be scored properly etc, whilst continually just pairing any pair of dogs they can get hold of. To the other extreme, how much of the problem of HD is actually genetic? Many mention nutrition and careful exercising of pups being just as important. (Of course the use of Ester C being another cornerstone). Just interested in your thoughts and whether hip scoring was worthwhile, and if so, what was the safer option, GA or sedation? Thanks very much, James James | |||
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| ccal |
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 | Hi James, In my opinion, I believe its very important. I will try to do it to most of our dogs and people who owns dogs from us. Hip testing is not the norm for this breed. There is always a risk but I am willing to risk it. [ Edited Sun Aug 09 2009, 04:11PM ] . | |||
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| Anthony |
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 | I haven't seen anything that proves Vit C or Ester C is a preventive action to HD. I've only seen or read how those suppelements help in mending or the aftercare of pups/dogs in pain. Anthony <script type="text/javascript"><!-- google_ad_client = "pub-8540005283325832"; /* 728x90, created 17/04/09 */ google_ad_slot = "0692574383"; google_ad_width = 728; google_ad_height = 90; //--> </script> <script type="text/javascript" src="http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/show_ads.js"> </script> | |||
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| brigda |
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| Guest Gold 0  Spent: 0 | Great thread, James, I have mixed feelings about this, my original neos, in the 90's, I did do OFA on my female, (Ironstone Bambina), and she was scored "moderate" dysplastic. I spoke with Dr Allen, (I was incredibly surprised and honored that she spoke with me about this), and she told me, at THAT time, that in her opinion, all this breed would score dysplastic. Bina lived to 9 years. She had no hip issues, ever, she was very active. Her two pups, that I kept, never showed signs of dysplasia, or pain. Maddie has been Penn Hip certified, I need to look at her results, I believe she was certified as mildly dysplastic. I had her xrays done for her certification when she was having another surgical procedure, so she wasn't anesthesized twice. She is very athletic, and has never had rear end problems. What do you use, Carlos, OFA or PennHip? Why do you think it is so important? Anne | |||
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| ccal |
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| | Anne, As for the Shar-peis & Basenjis, about 90% of them are all OFA. I think it is important for many reasons; Sure, some say 2 OFA parents can still produce a dysplastic dog. But, if one does it 80%-90% of 2, 3, or 4 generations of breeding dogs, your chances of getting HD would be much less, your line orr program would be in much better shape versus someone else. Dyplastic dogs will happen from time to time no matter what you do, especailly this breed, but one can do a great service by reducing the percentage by any means possible. I think people take advantage that testing is not the norm. In other breeds, if you dont test before mating, you'd be frown upon as if one committed a crime. lol [ Edited Sun Aug 09 2009, 11:33PM ] . | |||
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| brigda |
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| Guest Gold 0 Spent: 0 | Thanks for your response, Carlos... I don't know how ofa scoring works, and what determines breedability? Would you mind explaining that? I truly don't understand how it works. Thanks again. Anne [ Edited Sun Aug 09 2009, 11:38PM ] | |||
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| JLBG |
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 | Ok, I have a question for Carlos and others breeders that test the hips. From what I have heard and experienced myself with OFA and PennHip, the ratings they give aren't always accurate. So, do you only look at the scores given when deciding whether or not to breed a particular dog or do you look at the whole picture (i.e. movement, see the x-rays yourself, family history, etc)? If you don't see the x-rays with your own eyes, how do you know they aren't sending in a horrible image? If your dog gets a poor rating but yet the dog moves nicely, comes from a healthy line, and according to the x-rays looks only slightly loose (this is an imaginary dog by the way), would you not use it in your breeding program because of the score? I am just curious. I know with other dog breeds (like the Bernese) they have to have a good score before breeding or you are considered the scum of the earth and are nothing but lousy byb's (as carlos mentioned, it is like committing a crime). I am just trying to figure out what are the right and wrong things to do in this breed. Jessica | |||
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| brigda |
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| Guest Gold 0 Spent: 0 | Thanks, Jessica, that's what I was trying to ask. Anne | |||
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| James C |
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| | Great responses, as expected! Thanks Guys. Do you guys who hip score use general anaesthetic or sedatives for your dogs? Regards, James James | |||
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| Starrsdcct |
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HBIC | With Sasha we did GA and as soon as it was reversed she started coming back around and was walking again in ten minutes. As to how important is hip scoring. It needs to be practiced more, with a bigger data base on the breed they will have more to go on with scoring, like with Penn hipp that is breed based. Sashas results came back severe and she is almost 8 and still runs and jumps. Her score was based on too much lastisity. I think seeing the dogs move, and seeing x rays for yourself does help. Because you can see a bad joint, but I dont think the lastisity is as big of a problem for these guys as the test suggest. I do think with more testing of stock and breeding more for hips we can improve the Mastino's hip scores as other breeds have done. Anthony Here is part of the Ester C thread on how C can prevent HD in puppies, and a link to the thread. I had to say that I'd never heard of Vitamin C curing canine hip dysplasia, but I was aware that veterinarian Wendell Belfield D.V.M of San Jose, CA, did prevent CHD -- or least its symptoms -- in eight litters of German shepherds, a breed that is prone to crippling abnormal development of a dog's hip joints. In those instances, all of the dogs' parents had CHD or had previously whelped pups that became dysplastic. Belfield gave the bitches Vitamin C throughout pregnancy and lactation. The pups received Vitamin C from weaning until they were two years old. None of the pups developed CHD during that entire period. Click This Link Starrsdcct Neapolitans UGM Admin Check out the links below Mastino Napoletano Photos Mastino Napoletano Links Mastino Napoletano Videos Mastino Napoletano Health Mastino Napoletano Chat Room | |||
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