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HBIC | Here are Shantells Pics   Ok here are some pics of my own that will show a good topline. I agree with Alex you have to be face level to get good shots of your dogs. But I am one that gets tired of seeing staged photos, I like seeing pics of the dogs natural, and you can see so much more then. So if you have a good topline it is there all the time, as you will see in these pics of Monster not staged, and one of Dad trying to get him to sit. You don't have to stack and get a good top line on a dog that has a good top line.    [ Edited Mon Oct 26 2009, 09:31AM ] Starrsdcct Neapolitans UGM Admin Check out the links below Mastino Napoletano Photos Mastino Napoletano Links Mastino Napoletano Videos Mastino Napoletano Health Mastino Napoletano Chat Room | |||
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| Witch Hazel |
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 | OK Shantell, in the first pic, there is an arc from behind the shoulders to infront of the hips. Is this a good or acceptable curve? It is slight and gradual and to me looks natural enough. The angle from the front of his hips to the tail seems like a fast drop. In horses this would be a strong back for weight bearing. Starrsdcct in your dog (specialy the last shot) the curve starts mid spine and is barly visable at all. The angle from hip to under the tail seames almost square. Wich is prefered? Also the dog is not really parallel he is kind of got his hind legs bent or back in all the shots, I'm not complaining I'm just saying. I know how hard it is to get good shots, mine are usually of my dogs leaving. "When one tugs at a single thing in nature, he finds it attached to the rest of the world." - John Muir Cathy Walker Nova Scotia, Canada Thoroughbred Race Horses Dog Grooming | |||
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| Starrsdcct |
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| HBIC | That last pic is a pic of him walking, he has a straight topline, with the longer than taller breeds you will get an arch when in movement. A severe roach would not be acceptable, Standing normal there should not be an arch. Their back legs should not be stretched so far back to make that happen either. They should look like they are standing normal and comfortable. Dad has my old computer running again, I will have him send me some more pics to post. Here are a few more. Felina with a straight topline, and I will post one of Zorba at ten months. If you see dogs being posted with show pics, they are acceptable enough that a judge picked them. You have some that have straight top lines that go straight to the tail, then you have some that have a dip that slopes right at the croup, either one is exceptable. Now a severe roach would not be. I will show also a pic of Franny with the dip at the tail.    Starrsdcct Neapolitans UGM Admin Check out the links below Mastino Napoletano Photos Mastino Napoletano Links Mastino Napoletano Videos Mastino Napoletano Health Mastino Napoletano Chat Room | |||
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| Deacon |
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 | Go Steelers!! I like strong hind quarters like a lion would have. Lions are a little high in the back. I would think they would stack a little high over the back as they have a lot of muscle holding them together. Here are a couple pics of mine.    A good stack can help a top line and a bad stack can destroy a top line. Best time to judge a top line is when the dog goes from a run trot or pace to a stop. Then you get to see the strength or lack of it [ Edited Mon Oct 26 2009, 12:19PM ] Troy Stroud AKC Member ICKC Member USNMC Board Member Mastini Del Diacono -http://deacon.viviti.com/ Email Address Neapolitan puppies for sale Michigan GO Green "The moral is to the physical as three to one" | |||
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| Starrsdcct |
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| HBIC | Very true Troy. I have been thinking about doing a thread called online dogshow, we could each take a video of bite and movements of the dogs and stack them and post them in the thread, I think it would be fun, plus we would get to see movement instead of still shots. Would I have any takers? Starrsdcct Neapolitans UGM Admin Check out the links below Mastino Napoletano Photos Mastino Napoletano Links Mastino Napoletano Videos Mastino Napoletano Health Mastino Napoletano Chat Room | |||
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| HBIC | Here is a pic of Temoc and Juni the morning after they arrived. Both just standing natural, both have good top lines. Starrsdcct Neapolitans UGM Admin Check out the links below Mastino Napoletano Photos Mastino Napoletano Links Mastino Napoletano Videos Mastino Napoletano Health Mastino Napoletano Chat Room | |||
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| HBIC | Here is a good picture of a roach back, without affending anyone in the breed. Starrsdcct Neapolitans UGM Admin Check out the links below Mastino Napoletano Photos Mastino Napoletano Links Mastino Napoletano Videos Mastino Napoletano Health Mastino Napoletano Chat Room | |||
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| Deacon |
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| | Star the dogs look great but the pic makes me feel like I am falling... was this a action shot ? Sure.. I could do a video of bites easy enough by myself. or have them chase a soccer ball. Show drive and motive at the same time. now to Alex's point.... """I have to admit the "topline thing baffles me too. It seems to be much more important showing under AKC rules than FCI, or so I have been told. My girl, Medusa of the Oaks, 24 months, has Thatch Roof behind her and she really meets the WHAM test, wrinkle head and mass. She has MASSIVE dew lap, but she is high in the rear end. Our little boy, Centaurian Mastini Titus, almost 9 months, has a great "topline." We'll just have to watch as he grows up to see if it stays that way. Below is the AKC standard, the FCI standard is diffrent, that's a whole diffrent debate. Standard of the Neapolitan Mastiff General Appearance An ancient breed, rediscovered in Italy in the 1940's, the Neapolitan Mastiff is a heavy-boned, massive, awe inspiring dog bred for use as a guard and defender of owner and property. He is characterized by loose skin, over his entire body, abundant, hanging wrinkles and folds on the head and a voluminous dewlap. The essence of the Neapolitan is his bestial appearance, astounding head and imposing size and attitude. Due to his massive structure, his characteristic movement is rolling and lumbering, not elegant or showy. This paragraph really says it all. It presents all three aspects of type: Wrinkle Characterized by loose skin over his entire body, abundant, hanging wrinkles, and folds on the head and a voluminous dewlap. Head and Mass The essence of the Neapolitan Mastiff are his bestial appearance, astounding head and imposing size and attitude. It also addresses the two qualifiers for interpreting the standard: Emotional impact by use of words such as "massive, awe inspiring dog.... bestial appearance....imposing size and attitude." And introduces the concept that this dog is not expected to have endurance "characteristic movement is rolling and lumbering." Size, Proportion, Substance A stocky, heavy boned dog, massive in substance, rectangular in proportion. Length of body is 10% - 15% greater than the height. Height: Dogs: 26 to 31 inches, Bitches: 24 to 29 inches. Average weight of mature Dogs -150 pounds; Bitches -110 pounds; but greater weight is usual and preferable as long as correct proportions and function are maintained. The absence of massiveness is to be so severely penalized as to eliminate from competition. It is desired that the dog is to be rectangular, and the Italian experts all state that if there is a variance, it is better to be a little too long in body, than a little too tall in proportion. In the U.S. standard it is stated that the length of body should be 10 -15% longer than the height to emphasize that desire. Remember that it is not a fault if the dog is square, but it is not correct. Given a choice of two equal dogs, pick the one that is more rectangular. It is so important to us that the dogs have Mass, be Massive, and appear Massive that a dog with a lack of Mass should be so severely penalized as to eliminate from competition. Head Large in comparison to the body. Differentiated from that of other mastiff breeds by more extensive wrinkling and pendulous lips which blend into an ample dewlap. Toplines of cranium and the muzzle must be parallel. The face is made up of heavy wrinkles and folds. Required folds are those extending from the outside margin of the eyelids to the dewlap, and from under the lower lids to the outer edges of the lips. Severe faults Toplines of the cranium and muzzle not parallel. Disqualifications: Absence of wrinkles and folds. The head is critical to the emotional impact that this breed must create in the on-looker. Not only is it large, it is covered with wrinkles and folds, which flow into an impressive dewlap. The eyes are deep-set, almost hidden beneath the folds. The topline of the cranium and muzzle must be parallel. The whole head should be covered with folds and wrinkles. The skin is loose on the head and body, not tight and rigid. At the same time, the skin must be heavy and thick, not thin. It moves about easily, but must not look like water moving over the dog. Some dogs have distinctly more wrinkles than others do. It is not a case of "the more the better". It is more a "look." The dog must look correct. It must look as if the wrinkles and folds are an integral part of the dog; not something placed on the dog. At a minimum, all Neapolitan Mastiffs must have a significant fold made up of two wrinkles running from the eyes down to join the lip. One wrinkle runs from the outer-edge of the eye, one from the inner-edge of the eye. The fold is deep, and should almost look as if it were cut into a piece of clay by a knife. NOTE: DISQUALIFICATION FOR LACK OF WRINKLE AND FOLDS It is so important that the breed have appropriate wrinkles that a dog without wrinkles and folds is not a proper Neapolitan Mastiff. Such a dog should not be in the ring. Expression Wistful at rest, Intimidating when alert. Penetrating stare. Eyes: Set deep and almost hidden beneath drooping upper lids. Lower lids droop to reveal the haw. Color: Shades of amber or brown, in accordance with coat color. Pigmentation of the eye rims same as the coat color. Severe faults: Whitish-blue eyes; incomplete pigmentation of the eye rims. The eyes are deep-set and hidden. You've heard the expression "the eyes are the window to the soul." In its job as guard, when the Neapolitan Mastiff is looking at you, you usually cannot see the eyes, and you cannot tell what it is thinking. You may not even know if it is truly looking at you by looking at the eyes. However, when a Neapolitan Mastiff is alert and is paying attention to you (because you did something that caught its attention and it is trying to determine if there is something it should be concerned about) its entire aspect is intimidating simply by the intensity of the expression of the face. The wrinkles and folds all contribute to this. When the Mastino is not looking at you, or when it is not especially alert (typical for this breed, especially when in the show ring), it simply gazes around bored. The lower lids of the eye droop to reveal the haw. The Neapolitan Mastiff is bred to have loose skin, which translates to loose eye-rims. In the course of a day, a bit of chaff may get in the eye. Interestingly enough, though, the looseness of the skin actually helps get rid of most of this, as the skin is so loose as it moves across the eye, any chaff drops out, instead of getting caught in the skin. Ears: Set well above the cheekbones. May be cropped or uncropped but are usually cropped to an equilateral triangle for health reasons. If uncropped, they are medium sized, triangular in shape, held tight to the cheeks, and not extending beyond the lower margin of the throat. Skull: Wide, flat between the ears, slightly arched at the frontal part, and covered with wrinkled skin. The width of the cranium between the cheekbones is approximately equal to its length from occiput to stop. The brow is very developed. Frontal furrow is marked. Occiput is barely apparent. Stop: Very defined, forming a right angle at the junction of muzzle and frontal bones, and then sloping back at a greater angle where the frontal bones meet the frontal furrow of the forehead. Nose: Large with well-opened nostrils, and in color the same as the coat. The nose is an extension of the top line of the muzzle and should not protrude beyond nor recede behind the front plane of the muzzle. Severe faults: Incomplete pigmentation of the nose. The standard says the ears are usually cropped to an equilateral triangle, but doesn't say how long an equilateral triangle, and it doesn't say anything about how the ears should be carried. The ears contribute to the all-important expression, the way the head "looks" for the breed, and so we must consider them for that purpose. The ears are traditionally cropped fairly short. A longer cropped ear makes the dog look more alert, more like other breeds, which is not desirable for this breed. Sometime dogs will have the ear cropped so short it is nearly gone. This isn't a real problem except how it relates to the look of the shape of the head. Sometimes, without that little wedge of an ear at the side of the head, the head can give the appearance of being more rounded. It is preferred that the cropped ear lay flat over the top of the head, or to stand up, but many dogs will hold them out to the side. This is not to be penalized, and should not be considered a fault. If uncropped, the ear is triangular, like a Mastiff ear, and held fairly unobtrusive and close to the cheek. It must not be "rose" like a Bulldog, and it must not be "folded" like a Hound. The cranium and muzzle are parallel. The top should be flat. You may want to check the cranium physically to be sure you're seeing the flat skull, not the wrinkles and folds or muscles which may make it look more rounded. The width of the cranium should be approximately equal to the length. The sides should be parallel. Muzzle: It is 1/3 the length of the whole head and is as broad as it is long. Viewed from the front, the muzzle is very deep with the outside borders parallel giving it a "squared" appearance. The top plane of the muzzle from stop to tip of nose is straight, but is ridged due to heavy folds of skin covering it. Severe faults; Top plane of the muzzle curved upward or downward. Lips: Heavy, thick, and long, the upper lips join beneath the nostrils to form an inverted "V". The upper lips form the lower, outer borders of the muzzle, and the lowest part of these borders is made by the corners of the lips. The corners turn outward to reveal the flews, and are in line with the outside corners of the eyes. The long lips of the Neapolitan Mastiff are part of the distinct look of the dog. When viewed from the front, the lips must join beneath the muzzle and then separate below the jaw as an upside-down "V". The preferred bite is a scissors bite, or a pincer bite, but an undershot bite is allowed as long as the undershot jaw is not so extensive that it is visible through the upper lips. If the undershot jaw turns the upside-down "V" into an upside-down "U" this is too much undershot. Bite: Scissors bite or pincer bite is standard; slight undershot is allowed. Dentition is complete. Faults: More than 1 missing premolar. Severe faults: Overshot jaw: pronounced undershot jaw which disrupts the outline of the front plane of the muzzle; more than 2 missing teeth. Neck, Topline and Body Neck: Slightly arched, rather short, stocky, and well-muscled. The voluminous and well-divided dewlap extends from the lower jaw to the lower neck. Disqualification: Absence of dewlap. It is a short, strong, arched neck. Such a neck is necessary to hold that massive head. If you touch the neck of a mature dog, you should definitely get an impression of muscles. The dewlap must exist and must be divided in two. DISQUALIFICATION: ABSENCE OF DEWLAP This is another manifestation of how important the three characteristics of type are to the breed. If the dog does not have a Dewlap, it cannot possibly have properly loose skin, it is not a proper Neapolitan Mastiff and it must not be in the conformation ring! Body: The length of the dog, measured from the point of the shoulder to the point of the buttock, is 10% - 15% greater than the height of the dog measured from the highest point of the shoulder to the ground. Depth of the ribcage is equal to half the total height of the dog. Ribs are long and well sprung. Chest: Broad and deep, well muscled. Underline and tuckup: The underline of the abdomen is practically horizontal. There is little or no tuckup. Back: Wide and strong. Highest part of the shoulder blade barely rising above the strong, level topline of the back. Loin: Well-muscled and harmoniously joined to the back. Croup: Wide, strong, muscular and slightly sloped. The top of the croup rises slightly and is level with the highest point of the shoulder. Tail: Set on slightly lower than the topline, wide and thick at the root, tapering gradually toward the tip. It is docked by about 1/3. At rest, the tail hangs straight or in slight "S" shape. When in action, it is raised to the horizontal or a little higher than the back. Severe fault: Tail carried straight up or curved over the back. Kinked tail. Disqualification: Lack of tail or short tail, which is less than 1/3 the length from point of insertion of the tail to the hock. The Neapolitan Mastiff must not get its height from length of leg, but from its body and legs proportioned together. If you draw a line along the bottom of the abdomen, it should parallel a line drawn along the topline. In the adult Neapolitan Mastiff, there should be little to no tuckup. Note that the skin may hang down below the underside, so be sure you're looking at the abdomen, not just the hanging skin. This massive dog has a massive back. It should be distinctly wide. The withers are also wide. While there may be a slight dip behind the withers, the back should be level to the loin. The croup is angled to give spring to the hindquarters, which must be able to propel this big heavy dog from a lying position into instantaneous action. Forequarters Heavily built, muscular, and in balance with the hindquarters. Shoulders: Long, well-muscled, sloping and powerful. Upper arms: Strongly muscled, powerful. In length, almost 1/3 the height of the dog. Elbows: Covered with abundant and loose skin; held parallel to the ribcage, neither tied in nor loose. Forelegs: Thick, straight, heavy bone, well muscled, exemplifying strength. About the same length as the upper arms. Set well apart. Pasterns: Thick and flattened from front to back, moderately sloping forward from the leg. Dewclaws: Front dewclaws are not removed. Feet: Round and noticeably large with arched, strong toes. Nails strong, curved and preferably dark-colored. Slight turn out of the front feet is characteristic. The forequarters of the dog must exemplify strength. The ability to hold this heavy, massive dog up, to support it as it springs into action. Typically dewclaws in the front are not removed. SLIGHT TURN-OUT OF THE FRONT FEET IS CHARACTERISTIC This is a big heavy dog. A dog that in order to maintain balance turns its front feet out, but otherwise has a correct leg, straight bones, and correctly placed elbows. Hindquarters As a whole, they must be powerful and strong, in harmony with the forequarters. Thighs: About the same length as the forearms, broad, muscular. Stifles: Moderate angle, strong. Legs: Heavy and thick boned, well-muscled. Slightly shorter than the thigh bones. Hocks: Powerful and long. Rear pasterns (metatarsus): Heavy, thick bones. Viewed from the side, they are perpendicular to the ground. Viewed from the rear, parallel to each other. Rear dewclaws: Any dewclaws must be removed. Hind feet: Same as the front feet but slightly smaller. It is more important that the forequarters and hindquarters be in balance, be harmonious with each other and with the overall dog. The Neapolitan Mastiff must exemplify strength and power. Coat The coat is short, dense and of uniform length and smoothness all over the body. The hairs are straight and not longer than 1 inch. No fringe anywhere. Color Solid coats of gray (blue), black, mahogany and tawny, and the lighter and darker shades of these colors. Some brindling allowable in all colors. When present, brindling must be tan (reverse brindle). There may be solid white markings on the chest, throat area from chin to chest, underside of the body, penis sheath, backs of the pasterns, and on the toes. There may be white hairs at the back of the wrist. Disqualification: White markings on any part of the body not mentioned as allowed. Gait The Neapolitan Mastiff's movement is not flashy, but rather slow and lumbering. Normal gaits are the walk, trot, gallop, and pace. The strides are long and elastic, at the same time, powerful, characterized by a long push from the hindquarters and extension of the forelegs. Rolling motion and swaying of the body at all gaits is characteristic. Pacing in the show ring is not to be penalized. Slight paddling movement of the front feet is normal. The head is carried level with or slightly above the back. Temperament The Neapolitan Mastiff is steady and loyal to his owner, not aggressive. As a protector of his property and owners, he is always watchful and does not relish intrusion by strangers into his personal space. His attitude is calm yet wary. In the show ring he is majestic and powerful, but not showy. Faults The foregoing description is that of the ideal Neapolitan Mastiff. Any deviation from the above described dog must be penalized to the extent of the deviation. Disqualifications Absence of wrinkles and folds Absence of dewlap Lack of tail or short tail, which is less than 1/3 the length from point of insertion of the tail to the hock White marks on any part of the body not mentioned as allowed. Approved: January 13, 2004 Effective: May 1, 2004 United States Neapolitan Mastiff Club Click This Link Alejandro Gonzalez Mastino Del Valle Grande <script type=\\\"text/javascript\\\"><!-- google_ad_client = "pub-8540005283325832"; /* 728x90, created 17/04/09 */ google_ad_slot = "0692574383"; google_ad_width = 728; google_ad_height = 90; //--> </script> <script type=\\\"text/javascript\\\" src=\\\"http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/show_ads.js\\\"> </script> Alejandro Gonzalez Mastino Del Valle Grande <script type=\\\"text/javascript\\\"><!-- google_ad_client = "pub-8540005283325832"; /* 728x90, created 17/04/09 */ google_ad_slot = "0692574383"; google_ad_width = 728; google_ad_height = 90; //--> </script> <script type=\\\"text/javascript\\\" src=\\\"http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/show_ads.js\\\"> </script> Alejandro Gonzalez Mastino Del Valle Grande <script type=\\\"text/javascript\\\"><!-- google_ad_client = "pub-8540005283325832"; /* 728x90, created 17/04/09 */ google_ad_slot = "0692574383"; google_ad_width = 728; google_ad_height = 90; //--> </script> <script type=\\\"text/javascript\\\" src=\\\"http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/show_ads.js\\\"> </script>""" """ White on the nose does not effect the top line but it does create a fault. [ Edited Mon Oct 26 2009, 12:51PM ] Troy Stroud AKC Member ICKC Member USNMC Board Member Mastini Del Diacono -http://deacon.viviti.com/ Email Address Neapolitan puppies for sale Michigan GO Green "The moral is to the physical as three to one" | |||
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| HBIC | Troy, that is why you should always be face level with the dogs when taking pics lol. It was taken with my cell phone just to get a quick shot for Alex. Actually, if I walked away I could not get side shots, or if I bent down, cause these two were more interested in playing so I had to get what I could looking over them lol. Starrsdcct Neapolitans UGM Admin Check out the links below Mastino Napoletano Photos Mastino Napoletano Links Mastino Napoletano Videos Mastino Napoletano Health Mastino Napoletano Chat Room | |||
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| alejandrodvg |
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Dont mess with the SHERRIFF! | HAHAHAHA That term WHAM is the worst thing that ever happened to the breed in the AKC. The mastino is more than just WHAM. I thought I would throw that out there. Just like they are not gentle giants. So yes basically when your looking at a dogs top line you want to see a strong spine which indicates a strong construction of the dog for the most part. Its like a person who slouches versus a person with good posture. They will walk different and carry themselves different. Athletic people versus couch potatoes. There are people who have roached backs and many times it happens as they get older but we call it hunchback. In movement as Starr says the topline whould appear straight if it has a strong one. The posterior of a dog also has affect on this. So to answer your question about the standard no matter what standard you look at (which is not very different) the topline should be strong with the croup and tail set being slightly lower that the topline is acceptable. Too high is not usually ideal but it works in breeding out the low croups. Alejandro Gonzalez Mastino Del Valle Grande <script type=\\\"text/javascript\\\"><!-- google_ad_client = "pub-8540005283325832"; /* 728x90, created 17/04/09 */ google_ad_slot = "0692574383"; google_ad_width = 728; google_ad_height = 90; //--> </script> <script type=\\\"text/javascript\\\" src=\\\"http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/show_ads.js\\\"> </script> | |||
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