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| Random thought about Neo female and pups | << Previous thread | Next thread >> | ||
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Moderators: Administrator, Starrsdcct, Agrippina, alejandrodvg
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| JLBG |
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 | Ok, so honestly have NO idea where this thought came from (I was thinking about the wedding I have to go to tomorrow and this seriously, randomly popped into my head) but I have heard and been told numerous times that female Neos will often kill their pups. I have heard it from several people, one of which was a co-worker of mine who had one and she said that when her female had pups they had to muzzle her during feedings. But then I have heard from a lot of others that they have never had an issue with that. Another thing I have always been told and have heard is that they always need c-sections. But just on this site there have been mentions of natural births. I personally think that too many breeders jump the gun and assume they need a c-section without giving her a chance at birthing naturally but that is my opinion and I haven't experienced a Neo whelping yet to know for sure myself. We were always told Bernese can't whelp naturally, they need c-sections, none of ours ever needed a c-section. You just have to give them some time. But I do realize that a Neo is not a Bernese. So can the two things be related? That perhaps a more aggressive female that has a c-section done will be like "what the heck are these things?" when she wakes up and she may tend to b the one that will kill her pups? Does that make sense? Could that be a reason why? I don't know if anyone would answer this honestly but for the breeders, have you ever had a female kill her pups? Did she have a c-section? Or have c-sections never been an issue? What about natural births, how frequent are they? Just curious. Jessica | |||
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| alejandrodvg |
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Dont mess with the SHERRIFF! | Talking from experience I can tell you that neos for a long time were horrible mothers. I think they made horrible mothers because many were kennel dogs. I have also seen great mothers in th ebreed and they were treated as family. Now as for killing them yes they kill them when they smother the pups because they either had no proper whelping box or the owners left the bitch unsupervised which is a huge no no... You never leave a tired neo mom alone with the pups. I have never heard of a neo mom kill the pups unless it was sick or she just rejected them but never purposely killing them. To answer about C Section vs natural whelp its a good topic because I do think most people jump the gun on this one and go ahead and schedule a c section without giving mom a chance at being a mom. I had someone who told me that I should schedule Galia for c section. I said hell no!!!!! Guess what.... she had her first litter with Josue whelped them natural... I mean truth be told he was a terrible nursery man cause they didint even make a whelping box and then after she had them natural they took the pups away so they can bottle feed just in case her milk was no good. He had listened to many people who also had no clue saying neos are terrible moms. After bottle feeding pups and getting lazy 10 pups ended up being two by 14 days cause pups got colic from making cold milk. She could have just been put in a whelping box and told to feed her pups. Sometimes you need to step in and tell the bitch to lay down and let the pups eat... So my point is let nature take its course. The bitch is capable of live birth so no need to jump to surgery. Now if the bitch has troubles after giving birth and needs a c section thats another issue. Sometimes they take a break and I have heard many stories about them taking long breaks and the owners rushes to the vet as the bitch has more pups in their car. So I think these females whould be given a chance to do their thing and not get opened up for no reason or because Joe Blow says you should. I also know there are live births that some people will tell you it was a c section as to keep it a secret that everything went smooth. Each female is different and should be taken on a case by case. If the female is healthy and was able to be bred there should be no problem giving birth... I dont care how big the head and shoulders are they can still whelp natural I have seen it done at my own home. I have also seen it done in Bulldogs btw. Alejandro Gonzalez Mastino Del Valle Grande <script type=\\\"text/javascript\\\"><!-- google_ad_client = "pub-8540005283325832"; /* 728x90, created 17/04/09 */ google_ad_slot = "0692574383"; google_ad_width = 728; google_ad_height = 90; //--> </script> <script type=\\\"text/javascript\\\" src=\\\"http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/show_ads.js\\\"> </script> | |||
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| JLBG |
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| | My thoughts exactly. I don't think most people realize that it can be a good hour or so inbetween pups, you just have to give her time. Our first Bernese was TINY, just a little girl. She was bred to big males and had BIG pups (some of the pups we kept from her were literally twice her size when full grown) and she had them all on her own, no problems whatsoever. It is like, how do you know a female isn't capable of natural birth if you just c-section her immediately? Why put her through that if she could have done it all on her own? Just doesn't make sense to me. I was in my handling class one day and a Golden owner had just bred her female and was talking to the instructor and another breeder about what to do. People are seriously nuts. They are talking about all this stuff you HAVE to do before, during and after the birth and I seriously have NEVER done any of that stuff (progesterone testing close to the time of whelp, never took temperatures, this that and another thing) and we honestly have never had a problem (so far). We have never had to section a dog, never had more than two dead pups in a large litter (usually the last ones out) and never any mastitis (or whatever it is called). We are big believers of letting nature take its course. If they can't do it on their own, they shouldn't be bred. And that goes for raising them. She should nurse them herself and be gentle with them. We are always on hand of course and with big litters will supplement some goats milk, but that is about it. There was a special on tv once about gorillas in zoos and how they are horrible mothers. It all goes back to the zookeepers taking away a baby years ago to raise themselves (can't remember why, either mom rejected it or they just wanted to). They raised her alongside a human infant. When it came time for her to have offspring, she didn't know what to do, so the zookeepers took over again. And generations later now, none of the female gorillas know what to do because everything has always been done for them and they weren't raised by their own mother so they lose all of that instinct. Jessica | |||
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| Joni |
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 | I agree with Alex, but would just add that if your girl does end up having to have a c-section you need to be extremely careful and watchful with her and the pup until you know how she is going to react to it. Our Onyx was an excellent mother, but she did need a c-section due to her only having a single puppy. She was still groggy and recovering from anesthesia when we got her home and did not like the pup at first. We had to hold her down at first to let the pup nurse. It took only about one day though to get over that. I think that it takes a little longer for those mom hormones to kick in when they have a c-section and do not actually participate in the birth and lick clean the new baby etc. After the first day though, you couldn't have asked for a better mom. Good luck! Joni Doten | |||
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| alejandrodvg |
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| Dont mess with the SHERRIFF! | Joni wrote ... I agree with Alex, but would just add that if your girl does end up having to have a c-section you need to be extremely careful and watchful with her and the pup until you know how she is going to react to it. Our Onyx was an excellent mother, but she did need a c-section due to her only having a single puppy. She was still groggy and recovering from anesthesia when we got her home and did not like the pup at first. We had to hold her down at first to let the pup nurse. It took only about one day though to get over that. I think that it takes a little longer for those mom hormones to kick in when they have a c-section and do not actually participate in the birth and lick clean the new baby etc. After the first day though, you couldn't have asked for a better mom. Good luck! Excatly Joni... when they have only one pup its normal to schedule a c section since she may not go into labor. The nursing process helps the moms natural instinct to be mom and it also helps her chemically somehow to want to be a mom... So its a case by case and if you help them out a little its ok but I dont thinks its ok to take them away the most like doing... Alejandro Gonzalez Mastino Del Valle Grande <script type=\\\"text/javascript\\\"><!-- google_ad_client = "pub-8540005283325832"; /* 728x90, created 17/04/09 */ google_ad_slot = "0692574383"; google_ad_width = 728; google_ad_height = 90; //--> </script> <script type=\\\"text/javascript\\\" src=\\\"http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/show_ads.js\\\"> </script> | |||
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| Starrsdcct |
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HBIC | I have never had a neo that whelped or C-Sectioned that tried to kill her puppies. Like Alex said what most mean by mom killing them is she lays on them from not being supervised and does not know she is laying on one. I have seen many jump the gun and c-section before giving the mom the chance to do it her self. Labor is a long process and some think because it can take so long that she is in trouble. So they go to the vet. It really is inexperience showing in these situations. Cassie was in active panting and digging labor from 10 pm until 10 am the next morning. She would dig, push, pant, and then sleep and start it all over again. She was fine and I knew she was going thru the opening phase. My Mom use to breed Chi's and she said wow are you sure she is ok, she has been doing this a long time. I said she is fine. At ten am she started pushing the first pup out, and she pushed pup 13 out at 10 pm that night so we were up with her 24 full hours watching her. Some breeders get tired and opt for the c-section, cause it is less work. All thirteen lived and were fine. Cassie was fine. So I do think many jump the gun. Now I have had to go after a female that has had a large litter and wears out and get one pup out by c-section. That has happened once with Felina on pup 12. She was too tired to push on and oxytocin didnt get it out. Gaia got worn out on pup ten and a trip to the vet a shot of oxytocin and she passed it no problems. Starrsdcct Neapolitans UGM Admin Check out the links below Mastino Napoletano Photos Mastino Napoletano Links Mastino Napoletano Videos Mastino Napoletano Health Mastino Napoletano Chat Room | |||
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